So, I also really like all three episodes and think the series is indeed showing improvement over S1, beginning to truly live up to its potential. At the same time, I couldn't help but pay attention to the retconning, small and large, that happened here. There is the off-screen death of Brownwyn, the interesting repositioning of Durin and Disa, who seemed in their final appearances last season plotting to overthrow the King, and of course the situation with Sauron, which I think is very very interesting in terms of the revised backstory and the use of the Annatar name.
Yeah, I think that it's got a lot less ground to pay and so it can run with everything they've established and reach for that potential like you're saying.
Yes, Nazanin Boniadi opting to not return put them in a position where they either had to recast a second major character or retroactively explain what happened. Unlike with Adar, they chose the latter (maybe because she was less central to the story they planned on telling?)
The Sauron background we got was interesting: I was both impressed by it and frustrated at points too haha. But I thought it was very well-done how they had Sauron continue to use his Halbrand identity to further manipulate both Adar and Celebrimbor. I assumed he was done with that identity, but happy to be proven wrong!
I really enjoyed this newsletter! I must admit that I'm looking forward to see the next episodes, so far I'm liking this season more than the previous! The rings are so beautiful!
Thank you! And yes, I watched the first two in the wee hours of that morning also haha
I don't really understand it either. There's so much that the show is doing right to be enjoyed if you don't get hung up on nitpicking and focusing on what it isn't doing
Yeah, the Goo-ron intro was pretty surprising. So much blood and body horror in those first 15 minutes that felt reminiscent of Venom or Stranger Things. That’s stuff you wouldn’t get in a Peter Jackson film.
Question though! And this is coming from a casual Tolkien fan who hasn’t read the books, but why couldn’t Sauron develop a body in the LOTR through this Goo-ron method?
Haha, I mean, Peter Jackson started out as a horror movie director, so the blood and body horror would have fit right in with *those* of his movies...but I think you're right that in his LOTR/Hobbit films they wouldn't have had a scene to this level
Great question! Though the specific "Goo-ron" method itself seems like an invention of the show, in the books Sauron actually can and does develop a body again in the thousands of years between his defeat by Elendil, Gil-galad, Elrond, and Isuldur at Mount Doom and the events of LOTR. Gollum actually sees him while captured in Mordor, noting that one of his hands still only has four fingers. In the movies, however, Peter Jackson chose to symbolize both the form and power/reach of Sauron with the "Great Eye," something that is mentioned but more metaphorical in the books.
Oh, interesting! I’ve always simultaneously liked and been frustrated by the disembodied evil in the LOTR films. On one hand, it closer to how evil actually functions, at least in the Christian sense. But on a story level, it can feel frustrating to not see the evil embodied so you can hate it more directly.
I’m fascinated in the humanizing of Sauron in ROP. Not only does he have a body, but we can understand and empathize with him to a degree. I think that was the brilliance of the dialogue between him and his companion on the boat. My 5 year old is still hung up on the simplistic notion of good guys and bad guys and I’m always trying to add some nuance by reminding him anyone can make good choices and bad choices. And, according to that dialogue, a “bad guy” is someone who chooses evil actions day in and day out until it’s a part of his nature.
Personally, I don't think Cirdan's heart was changed solely by beholding the Rings; rather, he got a little bump from what most of us believe is Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, and took that opportunity to have second thoughts. He listened to the counsel of the Valar and made the right choice; in contrast to how Pharazon, faced with a far more explicit message from the Valar in the form of one of Manwe's eagles, made a different choice in his pride and ambition (and probably some fear of the crowd chanting his name)
Yes! I'll mention it in this week's coming recap, but since writing the recap Thursday night I've come across that idea and I like seeing Ulmo's intervention there with the wave that knocked the Rings back into his boat (I mentioned it in the episode of "That's What I'm Tolkien About" I was on that released yesterday, for instance). Makes me appreciate his role in the story a lot more!
The Jackson movies were Tolkien reinterpreted as tightly plotted Hollywood action films. Rings of Power is Tolkien reimagined as a long and meandering “prestige” streaming show. The strengths and weaknesses of each (those related to carbon and otherwise) should best be understood within this genre context.
A few responses to your analysis:
1. Cirdan is showing wisdom though, as the elven rings are not corrupted. Turning this into an open question and source of strife for the characters is a smart dramatic move. But I suspect Elrond will end up wrong on this one. Also the water popping the rings back in seemed to be a nudge from the Valar.
2. Bronwyn was probably always intended to die — no other way for her story to end. So it makes more sense to move that up than recast. Personally here story never worked much for me — she and Arondir are both too stoic to make a compelling romantic plot.
3. Evil wizard has to be an istar. He’s one of the blue, and Gandalf was sent to sort him out, at least that’s my theory. My guess is we’ll see the other Blue as well (maybe imprisoned by evil blue) and Gandalf will help him out before returning to Middle Earth.
I found it well crafted that when Halbrand is forced to put his head to Adar’s boot and swear allegiance to be released, he makes his pledge to the lord of Mordor.
So, I also really like all three episodes and think the series is indeed showing improvement over S1, beginning to truly live up to its potential. At the same time, I couldn't help but pay attention to the retconning, small and large, that happened here. There is the off-screen death of Brownwyn, the interesting repositioning of Durin and Disa, who seemed in their final appearances last season plotting to overthrow the King, and of course the situation with Sauron, which I think is very very interesting in terms of the revised backstory and the use of the Annatar name.
Yeah, I think that it's got a lot less ground to pay and so it can run with everything they've established and reach for that potential like you're saying.
Yes, Nazanin Boniadi opting to not return put them in a position where they either had to recast a second major character or retroactively explain what happened. Unlike with Adar, they chose the latter (maybe because she was less central to the story they planned on telling?)
The Sauron background we got was interesting: I was both impressed by it and frustrated at points too haha. But I thought it was very well-done how they had Sauron continue to use his Halbrand identity to further manipulate both Adar and Celebrimbor. I assumed he was done with that identity, but happy to be proven wrong!
I really enjoyed this newsletter! I must admit that I'm looking forward to see the next episodes, so far I'm liking this season more than the previous! The rings are so beautiful!
Well done. I stayed up until 1am and watched all 3. Not sure why all these purists refused to allow themselves to be entertained.
Thank you! And yes, I watched the first two in the wee hours of that morning also haha
I don't really understand it either. There's so much that the show is doing right to be enjoyed if you don't get hung up on nitpicking and focusing on what it isn't doing
Yeah, the Goo-ron intro was pretty surprising. So much blood and body horror in those first 15 minutes that felt reminiscent of Venom or Stranger Things. That’s stuff you wouldn’t get in a Peter Jackson film.
Question though! And this is coming from a casual Tolkien fan who hasn’t read the books, but why couldn’t Sauron develop a body in the LOTR through this Goo-ron method?
Haha, I mean, Peter Jackson started out as a horror movie director, so the blood and body horror would have fit right in with *those* of his movies...but I think you're right that in his LOTR/Hobbit films they wouldn't have had a scene to this level
Great question! Though the specific "Goo-ron" method itself seems like an invention of the show, in the books Sauron actually can and does develop a body again in the thousands of years between his defeat by Elendil, Gil-galad, Elrond, and Isuldur at Mount Doom and the events of LOTR. Gollum actually sees him while captured in Mordor, noting that one of his hands still only has four fingers. In the movies, however, Peter Jackson chose to symbolize both the form and power/reach of Sauron with the "Great Eye," something that is mentioned but more metaphorical in the books.
Oh, interesting! I’ve always simultaneously liked and been frustrated by the disembodied evil in the LOTR films. On one hand, it closer to how evil actually functions, at least in the Christian sense. But on a story level, it can feel frustrating to not see the evil embodied so you can hate it more directly.
I’m fascinated in the humanizing of Sauron in ROP. Not only does he have a body, but we can understand and empathize with him to a degree. I think that was the brilliance of the dialogue between him and his companion on the boat. My 5 year old is still hung up on the simplistic notion of good guys and bad guys and I’m always trying to add some nuance by reminding him anyone can make good choices and bad choices. And, according to that dialogue, a “bad guy” is someone who chooses evil actions day in and day out until it’s a part of his nature.
RIP Celeborn, long live Goo-ron
All hail Lord Goo-ron!
(p.s. I owe you an email!!)
Personally, I don't think Cirdan's heart was changed solely by beholding the Rings; rather, he got a little bump from what most of us believe is Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, and took that opportunity to have second thoughts. He listened to the counsel of the Valar and made the right choice; in contrast to how Pharazon, faced with a far more explicit message from the Valar in the form of one of Manwe's eagles, made a different choice in his pride and ambition (and probably some fear of the crowd chanting his name)
Yes! I'll mention it in this week's coming recap, but since writing the recap Thursday night I've come across that idea and I like seeing Ulmo's intervention there with the wave that knocked the Rings back into his boat (I mentioned it in the episode of "That's What I'm Tolkien About" I was on that released yesterday, for instance). Makes me appreciate his role in the story a lot more!
The Jackson movies were Tolkien reinterpreted as tightly plotted Hollywood action films. Rings of Power is Tolkien reimagined as a long and meandering “prestige” streaming show. The strengths and weaknesses of each (those related to carbon and otherwise) should best be understood within this genre context.
A few responses to your analysis:
1. Cirdan is showing wisdom though, as the elven rings are not corrupted. Turning this into an open question and source of strife for the characters is a smart dramatic move. But I suspect Elrond will end up wrong on this one. Also the water popping the rings back in seemed to be a nudge from the Valar.
2. Bronwyn was probably always intended to die — no other way for her story to end. So it makes more sense to move that up than recast. Personally here story never worked much for me — she and Arondir are both too stoic to make a compelling romantic plot.
3. Evil wizard has to be an istar. He’s one of the blue, and Gandalf was sent to sort him out, at least that’s my theory. My guess is we’ll see the other Blue as well (maybe imprisoned by evil blue) and Gandalf will help him out before returning to Middle Earth.
Strengths/weaknesses related to “canon” not “carbon.”
I found it well crafted that when Halbrand is forced to put his head to Adar’s boot and swear allegiance to be released, he makes his pledge to the lord of Mordor.
Thank you. Wonderful analysis.