I thought the Barrow-Wights were kinda cool but also felled way too quickly. This is one of those things where it feels the show ran out of time and/or budget for them.
I really wish they'd pushed the Galadriel stuff out and moved whatever stuff they have with the Stranger/Nori planned for the next hour here to make this more substantial. And the reason is simply that this is the best their story has been since the show started. Like, I thought it was gonna be the main focus but it ends just as it's revving up to something big.
Like JRRJ, I felt a bit disappointed with Tom Bombadil…when I read The Hobbit as a kid, his character majiked the heck out of (or more likely into) me! I was obsessed with him. This version was great, but could have been so much more… hopefully, his character (and presence) will “grow” in all ways!
At the Council in FOTR, Elrond says: "The Barrow-wights we know by many names," so it makes sense that those names might correspond with different kinds/places/times. Evil is derivative. If the Witch-King did something, we can assume that it wasn't novel to him and might have been known by Sauron or Morgoth before him.
As to Goldberry, many think that she's a river spirit: "By that pool [far down Withywindle] long ago I found the River-daughter," he says to the hobbits in FOTR. Given that there is no more green, nor water to be found in Rhun, it make sense why she is heard in connection with Tom but not seen or fairly described as present when the Stranger asks. She might only be a memory of water in that place, or faintly sensed there in her connection with Tom.
Yeah, totally agree about Elrond's comment and how it makes sense for this type of creature to not just show up at one place and one time in the history of middle-earth.
Great point about Goldberry! Hadn't even considered how a river spirit would fare in the wilderness lol
“Worthy of the Tolkien name” is such an interesting question. Of course adhering to cannon where this new story intersects with established history matters. But to me, “worthy of the Tolkien name” is more about the spirit of Papa Tolkien’s work. I enjoyed certain aspects of Season One, but I choked at Episode One, where the set-up looked like a child was going to be possessed by the Dark Lord and enact atrocities on screen! NOT Tolkien-worthy, had it gone that way! His work makes room for the evils we face but doesn’t glory in them. As a man processing trauma from his own war experience and a mythology expert, he wrote much tragedy and violence in MiddleEarth’s history…but he identified as a Hobbit. His heart was in the Shire. His desire was peace and green places. To me, the scent of Tolkien’s work is an elevated wonder, a longing for higher possibility—and most essentially, love. In my opinion, any work “worthy” of his name must share this same core.
Prior to watching this one, I read “The Adventures of Tom Bombadil” and re-read the three chapters he appears in in Fellowship.
The show’s portrayal of Bombadil was perfect. Just spot on. The barrow wights were pretty disappointing. In the book it’s so eerie and other worldly — the hobbits in a catatonic state, underground dressed like kings with a sword laying across their necks? Shivers. This episode reduced them to a decent video game encounter.
Other than that, though, good episode and Tom more than made up for the wights.
I just reread those chapters in Fellowship as well! Yeah, Frodo waking to see his companions dressed like kings with the naked blade along their necks...just so good! (It was a foggy morning around here when I reread it too... *shudder* haha)
Definitely agree with you about Ulmo intervening with Cirdan. Bombadil was all right, but not very true to his character, I feel. As for the Barrow-wights, I have a weird affection for them from my first reading of Fellowship, so I was admittedly pretty excited when they showed up, regardless of the historical accuracy.
I don't understand why they had to make up new plots and ideas for existing characters. Tolkien must have written thousands of pages of material about his characters and worlds- surely they could actually use different settings and characters instead of recycling the known ones.
When people ask “Why aren’t you watching that; I thought you loved Lord of the Rings?” My answer is I don’t love Lord of the Rings, I love Tolkien; this isn’t Tolkien.
That's fine that that's your opinion. You're welcome to hold it! But it's just that: your opinion. Mine, however, is different. (And technically, the only thing that "is Tolkien" is the books. Every other adaptation, yes, even the PJ LOTR films, are *based on* Tolkien but contain serious additions, deviations, or omissions from Tolkien)
You’re right that the books are the only things that are really Tolkien. That was exactly my point. I wasn’t expressing my opinion on the films, I was offering a suggestion for those who don’t know how to explain that Tolkien has a philosophy, a world view, that doesn’t always translate to the screen; that’s why they prefer the books. It’s Tolkien’s world view they’re into, not dragons and elves, per se. The casual bystander doesn’t often get that nuance. I remember when a friend was flabbergasted that I wouldn’t go to some children’s movie with dragons and dwarves and fairies. He couldn’t understand because he hadn’t read the books and assumed I was just into fairy tale stories. By the way, I love Peter Jackson’s LofR trilogy. He does the best job of keeping true to Tolkien, though, as you say, not perfectly.
I liked a lot of the episode...except the Barrow-wights. I found them a bit underwhelming, considering how much they have been hyped up (even to the point of being one of the Empire covers this past summer, alongside Galadriel and Sauron). They were scary, sure, but not nearly as terrifying as they could have been, and they were ultimately disposed of with far too much ease considering how this is essentially the first time anyone has encountered them. Speaking of which...Elrond's "extensive knowledge of lore is actually wrong; the only thing that will put them to rest, actually, is tearing open their barrows and exposing their treasures to the sunlight and any free folk who might take a fancy to them. And as many, MANY people have noted, the only reason the Elves are in this situation to begin with is because Elrond is being a total ASS to Galadriel, still; it's as if Cirdan's lesson about humility and trusting in the innate goodness of his closest friends went in one ear and out the other. And thus he led his company into a trap, and is lucky that he only lost one soldier.
I mean, to be fair, the actual only reason they're in this situation to begin with is because Galadriel did not tell Elrond and Celebrimbor the truth. So Elrond's behavior, while harsh, is entirely justified lol. (Especially with the way the struggle for the Silmarils impacted his own family). Galadriel messed up *terribly* and then covered her behind until they were locked into using the Rings. AND THEN SHE DIDN'T TELL CELEBRIMBOR THE TRUTH ABOUT HALBRAND?? Even worse. She deserves everything Elrond is saying. (Could he be more forgiving? Merciful? Of course. But it's understandable why he's having a hard time and acting like he is)
I thought the Barrow-Wights were kinda cool but also felled way too quickly. This is one of those things where it feels the show ran out of time and/or budget for them.
I really wish they'd pushed the Galadriel stuff out and moved whatever stuff they have with the Stranger/Nori planned for the next hour here to make this more substantial. And the reason is simply that this is the best their story has been since the show started. Like, I thought it was gonna be the main focus but it ends just as it's revving up to something big.
Interesting insights & comments by all.
Like JRRJ, I felt a bit disappointed with Tom Bombadil…when I read The Hobbit as a kid, his character majiked the heck out of (or more likely into) me! I was obsessed with him. This version was great, but could have been so much more… hopefully, his character (and presence) will “grow” in all ways!
This episode had some really great moments but, like yourself, I’m not convinced by Tom. Yet.
The scene with the Ents was a highlight but the barrow-wights, whilst great in the build up, were too easily defeated
Either way, Elrond and Galadriel continue to have a fascinating relationship but all the jumping about between storylines weakens the dynamic
I agree that it certainly has Tolkien’s tone and I’m really glad you’re enjoying it 👍🏼
At the Council in FOTR, Elrond says: "The Barrow-wights we know by many names," so it makes sense that those names might correspond with different kinds/places/times. Evil is derivative. If the Witch-King did something, we can assume that it wasn't novel to him and might have been known by Sauron or Morgoth before him.
As to Goldberry, many think that she's a river spirit: "By that pool [far down Withywindle] long ago I found the River-daughter," he says to the hobbits in FOTR. Given that there is no more green, nor water to be found in Rhun, it make sense why she is heard in connection with Tom but not seen or fairly described as present when the Stranger asks. She might only be a memory of water in that place, or faintly sensed there in her connection with Tom.
Yeah, totally agree about Elrond's comment and how it makes sense for this type of creature to not just show up at one place and one time in the history of middle-earth.
Great point about Goldberry! Hadn't even considered how a river spirit would fare in the wilderness lol
“Worthy of the Tolkien name” is such an interesting question. Of course adhering to cannon where this new story intersects with established history matters. But to me, “worthy of the Tolkien name” is more about the spirit of Papa Tolkien’s work. I enjoyed certain aspects of Season One, but I choked at Episode One, where the set-up looked like a child was going to be possessed by the Dark Lord and enact atrocities on screen! NOT Tolkien-worthy, had it gone that way! His work makes room for the evils we face but doesn’t glory in them. As a man processing trauma from his own war experience and a mythology expert, he wrote much tragedy and violence in MiddleEarth’s history…but he identified as a Hobbit. His heart was in the Shire. His desire was peace and green places. To me, the scent of Tolkien’s work is an elevated wonder, a longing for higher possibility—and most essentially, love. In my opinion, any work “worthy” of his name must share this same core.
Prior to watching this one, I read “The Adventures of Tom Bombadil” and re-read the three chapters he appears in in Fellowship.
The show’s portrayal of Bombadil was perfect. Just spot on. The barrow wights were pretty disappointing. In the book it’s so eerie and other worldly — the hobbits in a catatonic state, underground dressed like kings with a sword laying across their necks? Shivers. This episode reduced them to a decent video game encounter.
Other than that, though, good episode and Tom more than made up for the wights.
I just reread those chapters in Fellowship as well! Yeah, Frodo waking to see his companions dressed like kings with the naked blade along their necks...just so good! (It was a foggy morning around here when I reread it too... *shudder* haha)
Definitely agree with you about Ulmo intervening with Cirdan. Bombadil was all right, but not very true to his character, I feel. As for the Barrow-wights, I have a weird affection for them from my first reading of Fellowship, so I was admittedly pretty excited when they showed up, regardless of the historical accuracy.
I don't understand why they had to make up new plots and ideas for existing characters. Tolkien must have written thousands of pages of material about his characters and worlds- surely they could actually use different settings and characters instead of recycling the known ones.
No.
Next question?
While I strenuously disagree, you're free to your opinion! 🙂
When people ask “Why aren’t you watching that; I thought you loved Lord of the Rings?” My answer is I don’t love Lord of the Rings, I love Tolkien; this isn’t Tolkien.
That's fine that that's your opinion. You're welcome to hold it! But it's just that: your opinion. Mine, however, is different. (And technically, the only thing that "is Tolkien" is the books. Every other adaptation, yes, even the PJ LOTR films, are *based on* Tolkien but contain serious additions, deviations, or omissions from Tolkien)
You’re right that the books are the only things that are really Tolkien. That was exactly my point. I wasn’t expressing my opinion on the films, I was offering a suggestion for those who don’t know how to explain that Tolkien has a philosophy, a world view, that doesn’t always translate to the screen; that’s why they prefer the books. It’s Tolkien’s world view they’re into, not dragons and elves, per se. The casual bystander doesn’t often get that nuance. I remember when a friend was flabbergasted that I wouldn’t go to some children’s movie with dragons and dwarves and fairies. He couldn’t understand because he hadn’t read the books and assumed I was just into fairy tale stories. By the way, I love Peter Jackson’s LofR trilogy. He does the best job of keeping true to Tolkien, though, as you say, not perfectly.
I liked a lot of the episode...except the Barrow-wights. I found them a bit underwhelming, considering how much they have been hyped up (even to the point of being one of the Empire covers this past summer, alongside Galadriel and Sauron). They were scary, sure, but not nearly as terrifying as they could have been, and they were ultimately disposed of with far too much ease considering how this is essentially the first time anyone has encountered them. Speaking of which...Elrond's "extensive knowledge of lore is actually wrong; the only thing that will put them to rest, actually, is tearing open their barrows and exposing their treasures to the sunlight and any free folk who might take a fancy to them. And as many, MANY people have noted, the only reason the Elves are in this situation to begin with is because Elrond is being a total ASS to Galadriel, still; it's as if Cirdan's lesson about humility and trusting in the innate goodness of his closest friends went in one ear and out the other. And thus he led his company into a trap, and is lucky that he only lost one soldier.
I mean, to be fair, the actual only reason they're in this situation to begin with is because Galadriel did not tell Elrond and Celebrimbor the truth. So Elrond's behavior, while harsh, is entirely justified lol. (Especially with the way the struggle for the Silmarils impacted his own family). Galadriel messed up *terribly* and then covered her behind until they were locked into using the Rings. AND THEN SHE DIDN'T TELL CELEBRIMBOR THE TRUTH ABOUT HALBRAND?? Even worse. She deserves everything Elrond is saying. (Could he be more forgiving? Merciful? Of course. But it's understandable why he's having a hard time and acting like he is)
I do think Elrond could tone it down, but do agree that he's pretty justified for how he feels about the rings.