What worked (Eregion, the Dwarves) continued to work. (Though I'm kinda confused as to what precisely Durin was hoping to achieve by fighting the Balrog.)
But man, the Stranger/Nori stuff feels like the writers realizing that they have no time for this and giving up. In addition to a bunch of things happening off-screen, the actual confrontation between the Wizards seems to pack an entire episode's worth of development into two scenes. And yet again, there is all this teasing but no real payoff.
I'm hoping that Nori and Poppy's story has been wrapped up - that's certainly what it felt like, so if the show returns for S3, we'll have only the Gandalf storyline to follow. It's weird though how the episode didn't tell us where they were going. Presumably, they're gonna try to find the Shire now, but still weird that this point wasn't really established here.
In retrospect, I wish they'd never had this thread and instead gave the real estate over to the other plots, especially Numenor, which was so much more engaging this year, especially with Elendil. I wish they'd actually do something to clearly establish that Adar's transformation into an Elf was the last straw for Glug. Too much connective tissue here seemed absent.
I hear what you're saying about the Stranger and Nori. I agree that their story over the course of the season seemed "thin, sort of stretched" as Bilbo might say, but then in the finale they all of the sudden didn't have quite enough time to address everything. It would have been better to save it...and yet they're still a big piece of the heart/connection of the show, as Poppy's monologue at the end of the episode attests to.
I think this season they improved the pacing by dropping whole storylines from certain episodes and hope that they can take that lesson into S3 as a whole.
I'm still thinking that the first Bombadil episode was the pair's finest outing, but even there it felt over too abruptly. Like, they should just give Gandalf one big episode next season, where it's all him, end the Rhun storyline, and bring him to Middle earth.
Strong closer for this second season. Not perfect, but so much better than the 1st. The Charlies were incredible … and Adar’s death was a harder on me than I would have thought. Some fine acting going on there! Really looking forward to S3 finding its stride, which I think it will.
Yes, the Charlies were so good! Really such fine performances. And they definitely pushed each other to greater heights I think by playing off each other. I agree about S3, I think the show will shift into gear and capitalize on all the positive development and momentum of this season. Thank you!
Oh man, so many thoughts on this episode. Celebrimbor's final words to Sauron were so powerful, especially the line about Sauron's inability to follow him the the place of peace where he, thanks to Sauron, was now going. And all Sauron could do was cry because he knew it was true. There was something really profound there that I'd love to write about.
Another favourite moment: Elrond looking into the camera as he decided to put on the ring. It was such a fascinating move to break the fourth wall a bit, as if he was telling the audience that this choice meant he was going to be different, forever, from here on out, and he was at peace with it. (also, special shoutout to his hot nerd moment smacking down the orc that burned those scrolls...)
And finally, with this injury Galadriel sustained from Sauron and how it seems to be indicating a turning point for her character towards the Galadriel we know, I'm so excited to see where she goes next season!
1. The Celebrimbor/Sauron stuff really really worked, all season. The writing and plotting was sharper here, and Charles Edwards knocked it out of the park. Between him, Ian McKellan, and Bernard Hill, I'm starting to think you need true thespians to really make this kind of fantasy shine.
2. This plot is also the one place where the change from the text isn't merely acceptable or necessary but actually an improvement. Celebrimbor slowly losing his mind as the city burns outside? Fantastic drama.
3. Numenor was more interesting than season 1, but still had the problem that a lot of fantasy/SF stuff experiences when it tries to take on a more real-world genre -- it's got the appearance of a court drama but not much substance. Mostly it feels like they're just trying to keep the characters around so you don't forget about them before the fall of Numenor arc.
4. The Harfoots/Gandalf story is, sadly, a drag. The actors are all great and bring notable charisma to their role, they're just given nothing to do. The characters are very watchable, but I'm not even sure you can call that a story, even after two seasons.
5. I think we can put to rest the hope that this show is actively receiving special permission to use details from Unfinished Tales or Silmarillion. Yes, they're allowed to show the correct shape of Numenor and they've cleared the use of a few names, but we won't see anything more substantial than that. Celebrimbor's death is just about the closest they could legally come to doing the banner without stepping on copyright, Adar is given enough hints of a backstory (and intentionally avoids saying his name) so that you can assume him to be your preferred 1st age character, Galadriel fits the personality of her portrayal in Unfinished Tales (at least one of them, they're not really consistent) but without the same historical details, Dwarves sort of show up at Eregion but it's not the same, etc etc. The showrunners are working around these limitations admirably, but Tolkien fans need to accept that if it's not in the text of LOTR/appendices, it's not happening.
6. I think the biggest problem with this show is not the rights issue, it's that the showrunners are inexperienced. To make a behind-the-scenes guess, I think they're good at the administrative parts of running a project like this (getting all the right talent on board) but are making some fundamental storytelling-level mistakes that make it hard to get really immersed in the story. To be fair, Jackson was not exactly established talent when he started on LOTR, but he had (and this is important) actually made some films before.
Overall I find the show more enjoyable than not, but it's not going to be remembered as an example of great art the way the movies are.
Unlike what seems like a lot of people in the comments, I thought this episode achieved exactly what it set out to do and did it with a fair amount of style
The image of Durin leaping through the air at the Balrog was as stunning as anything in the original trilogy. It was an incredible scene. Genuinely jaw dropping. If I can get a print if that it’ll be going up on my wall
The torture of Celebrimbor by Sauron was really brutal but again the acting and dialogue between these two was second to none. The mask has truly slipped now and we’re seeing the true Sauron
With Adar and Galadriel, I did think that, for a brief moment, everything might be OK so well played was it by the two actors but, I guess, it has to all turn to darkness
Gandalf and Tom might not have had the most compelling scenes but them singing together was absolutely lovely
Overall, I think this series has been a triumph and there have been so many moments that speak directly to Tolkien’s work and capture his writing spirit that it is a shame people want to dismiss it out of hand. They are unfortunately missing out on a genuinely great TV event. Their loss
Thanks for all your thoughts and comments throughout this season. It’s been a wonderful read and look forward to what comes next 👍🏼
It's interesting, but in notes from 1959 Tolkien was outlining a mission that Melian and at least three of the Maiar who became Istari (including Olórin/Gandalf) were sent on in the First Age as guardians of the first elves. These are collected in "The Nature of Middle-earth." So it's not exactly without precedent that the Istari had missions before coming in the third age.
Regardless, if you go ahead and bring Gandalf to Middle-earth in the second age, it would be very difficult to have Saruman there and be acting all shady and trying to replace Sauron and then get Gandalf to trust him later, which I think is their point.
As someone who reveres Sam’s speech as practically a sacred text, Poppy’s voiceover seemed designed to function the same way. But the theme of acceptance, bordering on resignation, didn’t work nearly as well for me.
"Galadriel has touched the darkness, and she has found the light." I feel like she kind of did that last season, saving her soul by resisting Sauron the first time. The thing is, as poor Diarmud told Halbrand, being good is a matter of choosing to be good every day. And there were a couple of times that Galadriel came close to losing everything, even in this season; most notably with the at-the-time backstabbing Adar, even though she was no "collaborator" like Corey Olsen calls her (even though in the main he is quite sympathetic to her) and did it to protect others as well as destroy Sauron. Hell, a perfect time to choose surrender would have been when Morgoth's crown was embedded in her bosom and going deeper. But she didn't. She chose to stay true to herself, and kept her soul this season having saved it last season.
I feel like she touched the darkness last season but it wasn't until the conversation with Celebrimbor in Eregion and then passing it on the Gil-galad, Elrond, and Arondir in the valley of Imladris that she found the light.
And I don't know, she seemed ready to collaborate with Adar at the end, with the only reason she didn't being Adar's death.
Interesting! So you thought the rest of the season was better and perhaps deserved more. Is that because you felt like the finale was rushed, made some bad choices, or just didn't measure up to the rest?
I think it was a bit too rushed. A lot of things either happened offscreen or weren't explained very well, and it hurt my viewing of it. (Later viewings may be better.) Plus I'm definitely disappointed that the Stranger is Gandalf. I was really hoping that the Blue Wizards theory would be true, but I guess this has been inevitable since last season's finale. 😅 I still loved Celebrimbor's scene, though. His final moments were perfect. 👌
I have mixed feelings overall.
What worked (Eregion, the Dwarves) continued to work. (Though I'm kinda confused as to what precisely Durin was hoping to achieve by fighting the Balrog.)
But man, the Stranger/Nori stuff feels like the writers realizing that they have no time for this and giving up. In addition to a bunch of things happening off-screen, the actual confrontation between the Wizards seems to pack an entire episode's worth of development into two scenes. And yet again, there is all this teasing but no real payoff.
I'm hoping that Nori and Poppy's story has been wrapped up - that's certainly what it felt like, so if the show returns for S3, we'll have only the Gandalf storyline to follow. It's weird though how the episode didn't tell us where they were going. Presumably, they're gonna try to find the Shire now, but still weird that this point wasn't really established here.
In retrospect, I wish they'd never had this thread and instead gave the real estate over to the other plots, especially Numenor, which was so much more engaging this year, especially with Elendil. I wish they'd actually do something to clearly establish that Adar's transformation into an Elf was the last straw for Glug. Too much connective tissue here seemed absent.
Here's hoping S3 fares better.
Definitely agree about what worked still working!
I hear what you're saying about the Stranger and Nori. I agree that their story over the course of the season seemed "thin, sort of stretched" as Bilbo might say, but then in the finale they all of the sudden didn't have quite enough time to address everything. It would have been better to save it...and yet they're still a big piece of the heart/connection of the show, as Poppy's monologue at the end of the episode attests to.
I think this season they improved the pacing by dropping whole storylines from certain episodes and hope that they can take that lesson into S3 as a whole.
I'm still thinking that the first Bombadil episode was the pair's finest outing, but even there it felt over too abruptly. Like, they should just give Gandalf one big episode next season, where it's all him, end the Rhun storyline, and bring him to Middle earth.
I agree. It felt like a lot of stuff was missing.
Unrelated, but I wish everyone would link their footnotes on Substack. *chef’s kiss*
haha, yeah, (as you can probably guess) I agree!
Strong closer for this second season. Not perfect, but so much better than the 1st. The Charlies were incredible … and Adar’s death was a harder on me than I would have thought. Some fine acting going on there! Really looking forward to S3 finding its stride, which I think it will.
Super fantastic summary, JRRJ!
Yes, the Charlies were so good! Really such fine performances. And they definitely pushed each other to greater heights I think by playing off each other. I agree about S3, I think the show will shift into gear and capitalize on all the positive development and momentum of this season. Thank you!
Oh man, so many thoughts on this episode. Celebrimbor's final words to Sauron were so powerful, especially the line about Sauron's inability to follow him the the place of peace where he, thanks to Sauron, was now going. And all Sauron could do was cry because he knew it was true. There was something really profound there that I'd love to write about.
Another favourite moment: Elrond looking into the camera as he decided to put on the ring. It was such a fascinating move to break the fourth wall a bit, as if he was telling the audience that this choice meant he was going to be different, forever, from here on out, and he was at peace with it. (also, special shoutout to his hot nerd moment smacking down the orc that burned those scrolls...)
And finally, with this injury Galadriel sustained from Sauron and how it seems to be indicating a turning point for her character towards the Galadriel we know, I'm so excited to see where she goes next season!
A few scattered thoughts on this:
1. The Celebrimbor/Sauron stuff really really worked, all season. The writing and plotting was sharper here, and Charles Edwards knocked it out of the park. Between him, Ian McKellan, and Bernard Hill, I'm starting to think you need true thespians to really make this kind of fantasy shine.
2. This plot is also the one place where the change from the text isn't merely acceptable or necessary but actually an improvement. Celebrimbor slowly losing his mind as the city burns outside? Fantastic drama.
3. Numenor was more interesting than season 1, but still had the problem that a lot of fantasy/SF stuff experiences when it tries to take on a more real-world genre -- it's got the appearance of a court drama but not much substance. Mostly it feels like they're just trying to keep the characters around so you don't forget about them before the fall of Numenor arc.
4. The Harfoots/Gandalf story is, sadly, a drag. The actors are all great and bring notable charisma to their role, they're just given nothing to do. The characters are very watchable, but I'm not even sure you can call that a story, even after two seasons.
5. I think we can put to rest the hope that this show is actively receiving special permission to use details from Unfinished Tales or Silmarillion. Yes, they're allowed to show the correct shape of Numenor and they've cleared the use of a few names, but we won't see anything more substantial than that. Celebrimbor's death is just about the closest they could legally come to doing the banner without stepping on copyright, Adar is given enough hints of a backstory (and intentionally avoids saying his name) so that you can assume him to be your preferred 1st age character, Galadriel fits the personality of her portrayal in Unfinished Tales (at least one of them, they're not really consistent) but without the same historical details, Dwarves sort of show up at Eregion but it's not the same, etc etc. The showrunners are working around these limitations admirably, but Tolkien fans need to accept that if it's not in the text of LOTR/appendices, it's not happening.
6. I think the biggest problem with this show is not the rights issue, it's that the showrunners are inexperienced. To make a behind-the-scenes guess, I think they're good at the administrative parts of running a project like this (getting all the right talent on board) but are making some fundamental storytelling-level mistakes that make it hard to get really immersed in the story. To be fair, Jackson was not exactly established talent when he started on LOTR, but he had (and this is important) actually made some films before.
Overall I find the show more enjoyable than not, but it's not going to be remembered as an example of great art the way the movies are.
Unlike what seems like a lot of people in the comments, I thought this episode achieved exactly what it set out to do and did it with a fair amount of style
The image of Durin leaping through the air at the Balrog was as stunning as anything in the original trilogy. It was an incredible scene. Genuinely jaw dropping. If I can get a print if that it’ll be going up on my wall
The torture of Celebrimbor by Sauron was really brutal but again the acting and dialogue between these two was second to none. The mask has truly slipped now and we’re seeing the true Sauron
With Adar and Galadriel, I did think that, for a brief moment, everything might be OK so well played was it by the two actors but, I guess, it has to all turn to darkness
Gandalf and Tom might not have had the most compelling scenes but them singing together was absolutely lovely
Overall, I think this series has been a triumph and there have been so many moments that speak directly to Tolkien’s work and capture his writing spirit that it is a shame people want to dismiss it out of hand. They are unfortunately missing out on a genuinely great TV event. Their loss
Thanks for all your thoughts and comments throughout this season. It’s been a wonderful read and look forward to what comes next 👍🏼
“Given the history of Middle-earth, it would be highly, highly, highly improbable that this could be Saruman.”
“Given the history of Middle-earth” is a strange reason to employ given that, you know—Gandalf is there in the Second Age.
It's interesting, but in notes from 1959 Tolkien was outlining a mission that Melian and at least three of the Maiar who became Istari (including Olórin/Gandalf) were sent on in the First Age as guardians of the first elves. These are collected in "The Nature of Middle-earth." So it's not exactly without precedent that the Istari had missions before coming in the third age.
Regardless, if you go ahead and bring Gandalf to Middle-earth in the second age, it would be very difficult to have Saruman there and be acting all shady and trying to replace Sauron and then get Gandalf to trust him later, which I think is their point.
As someone who reveres Sam’s speech as practically a sacred text, Poppy’s voiceover seemed designed to function the same way. But the theme of acceptance, bordering on resignation, didn’t work nearly as well for me.
"Galadriel has touched the darkness, and she has found the light." I feel like she kind of did that last season, saving her soul by resisting Sauron the first time. The thing is, as poor Diarmud told Halbrand, being good is a matter of choosing to be good every day. And there were a couple of times that Galadriel came close to losing everything, even in this season; most notably with the at-the-time backstabbing Adar, even though she was no "collaborator" like Corey Olsen calls her (even though in the main he is quite sympathetic to her) and did it to protect others as well as destroy Sauron. Hell, a perfect time to choose surrender would have been when Morgoth's crown was embedded in her bosom and going deeper. But she didn't. She chose to stay true to herself, and kept her soul this season having saved it last season.
I feel like she touched the darkness last season but it wasn't until the conversation with Celebrimbor in Eregion and then passing it on the Gil-galad, Elrond, and Arondir in the valley of Imladris that she found the light.
And I don't know, she seemed ready to collaborate with Adar at the end, with the only reason she didn't being Adar's death.
Personally, I felt that the finale didn't do the rest of the season justice. But I'm still looking forward to season three and beyond.
Interesting! So you thought the rest of the season was better and perhaps deserved more. Is that because you felt like the finale was rushed, made some bad choices, or just didn't measure up to the rest?
I think it was a bit too rushed. A lot of things either happened offscreen or weren't explained very well, and it hurt my viewing of it. (Later viewings may be better.) Plus I'm definitely disappointed that the Stranger is Gandalf. I was really hoping that the Blue Wizards theory would be true, but I guess this has been inevitable since last season's finale. 😅 I still loved Celebrimbor's scene, though. His final moments were perfect. 👌